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Prairyearth

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Aug 7 07 3:24 PM

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Remember when NAFPS attacked many Ghostchildren?

Apparently NAFPS attacked the wrong people recently and are looking for a way to get their hate forum back up and running.

I received the following bulletin last evening on myspace, in which Al Carroll is seeking letters of support. A letter he will not receive from me.

The following bulletin is an expression and statement by Al Carroll, NDN News and Save the Sacred Sites, it does not express my own thoughts on this matter.

I will also be posting some more articles from Heyoka magazine regarding the NAFPS and their interactions, false accusations with other peoples.
Prairy
-------------------------------------------------------
Aug 6, 2007 7:03 PM

"Plastic Shamans Are Not Welcome

SAVE THE SACRED SITES
Posted by Educated Indio
Reposted by Dave

Folks we at STSS do not support and fake spirituality of any kind.
Dave


NAFPS Will Continue No Matter What

Please repost widely, on as many lists as you can.

New Age Frauds Plastic Shamans or NAFPS, located online at
Newagefraud.org, has been shut down temporarily due to the lies and
libel by an English New Age racist, John Lekay, editor of Heyoka
Magazine. Lekay is a leading promoter of New Age exploitation and
colonialism and seeks to dominate Native spiritual traditions,
especially Lakota religion, by promoting a series of fringe
characters, all the while silencing Native voices.

Mr Lekay joined the Newagefraud.org forum a few weeks ago and tried
to bully its members into withdrawing our criticism of New Age
racism, exploitation, sexual abuse, and greed and commercialism. When
we refused to back down, Lekay became abusive, arrogant, childish,
and attacked our members, misrepresented the position of
Newagfraud.org and the respected Native elders we support, and used
foul and abusive language with elderly members, even repeatedly
comparing Native elders who oppose the New Age movement to mass
murderers.

The moderators banned Lekay for his abusive behavior. He responded by
contacting our host with more misrepresentations and false
accusations, demanding we take off criticism of him or the New Age
exploiters he promoted. When we refused, our host, which has changed
owners, shut us down.

Lekay has also contacted many people by e-mail, trying to obtain
their support, which failed miserably. The only support he found was
from a notorious white supremacist posing as part Comanche, David
Yeagley, and one of his leading supporters, a violent racist named
John Martin who has issued a number of death threats.

Lekay uses his Heyoka Magazine to publish several libelous articles
about Dr Al Carroll, one of the founders of NAFPS, and Annika Banfeld
the director of a Swedish charity for Native children who also helped
produce a film against the exploitation of American Indian
spirituality.

Furthermore, Heyoka Magazine (an on-line project) offers a platform
to quite a number of known frauds and exploiters which get introduced
as "elders" and serious, genuine persons.

Lekay is an ignorant, paranoid, and dangerous man who stated publicly
he believed American Indians still live in tipis. He smears all who
disagree with him as FBI and RMCP agents, or even tools of Bush and
Cheney.

Lekay is spending huge sums of his own money to produce a film
promoting the replacement of Arvol Looking Horse with Suzanne Dupree
AKA "Looking Back Woman", an ex hairdresser who has been off the
reservation for nearly twenty year yet claims to be the "true"
possessor of the Lakota sacred pipe.

Lekay and Dupree have white European New Age supporters presently
spreading libel and lies about Looking Horse and his planned trip to
Europe to speak against New Age exploiters. While falsely accusing
Looking Horse of seeking to sell the sacred pipe to European whites,
some of these same European whites themselves are ceremony sellers
and promoters of New Age frauds like "Rainbow Eagle" and the so
called "Deer Tribe."

NAFPS would be very grateful if you contact
a) our host to protest the shutting down of NAFPS, Powweb Inc.

b ) the server hosting Heyoka Magazine to protest the continuing flow
of libelous articles about Dr Al Carroll and other NAFPS members
published at this site, as well as take down all libelous articles
about Mr Arvol Looking Horse and other actual elders, and demand to
shut down the site. www.readyhosting.com

c) Speak out against the lies and libel being spread about NAFPS, Dr.
Al Carroll, other individual members of NAFPS, and especially against
Arvol Looking Horse.

Thank you very much for your support. We at NAFPS have been flooded
by emails with kind words and people wanting to know what they can
do. We'll be online again in a few days and continue to work against
fraud and exploitation.

We will NOT be intimidated or silenced, EVER. All Lekay and the
racists amd exploiters he works have done is be mildly annoying and
make themselves look pathetic, small minded, and intolerant.
Regards,
New Age Frauds Plastic Shamans

www.ProtectSacredSites.org

www.NDNnews.com"
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Prairyearth

InnerFireCircle

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#1 [url]

Aug 7 07 3:28 PM

JOHN MARTIN ON NAFPS

This interaction is with a man named John Martin. A full blooded Lakota who went on the forum under the pseudonym Steve W to question Al Carroll about his hate speech, libeling others and his claims of being a Mescalero apache. Al Carroll was claming Steve W was John LeKay. This is part of what transpired. Much of John Martin/Steve Ws posts were deleted but we fortunately caught the last post, Reply #12 Today July 24th 2007 at 12:50:23 PM in its entirety before this happened. For anyone who is wondering who Barnaby McEwan is, he is the European administer of NAFPS residing in Totnes, Devon England.

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steve_w
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Steve's Sidetrack
« on: July 20, 2007, 12:24:57 AM »

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Educatedindian

just my opinion. i think the reason why this site gets soo many europeans is because they are just now realising what their ancestors did to ours. i cannot comment on freijas film because i have not seen it yet. she talks about making a profit from the film.well that sounds like she is using indians to make money off of. which in nothing new to indians. i think that we have been so used to being used by swedes, germans, dutch and scots that we are pretty much numb to it. i can't wait to see the film. we will see if freijas intentions were honorable or selfish. thank you.

« Last Edit: July 20, 2007, 09:36:45 AM by educatedindian » Logged



Johnnie
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Re: Lekay Embarasses Himself Yet Again
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2007, 08:51:13 AM »

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Hey Steve,

You like need to read a little history. Cause the ancestors of the current Europeans? Well, they stayed pretty much in Europe. It is the Euro ancestors of Americans who exploited Indians.

History 101. Helps to stay awake in class and take notes. As a teacher I stress that, a lot.

Johnnie

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educatedindian
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Steve's Sidetrack
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2007, 09:30:57 AM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steve, you need to learn some basic manners.

Quit sidetracking threads and going off topic.

Quit shoving down everyone's throats opinions that no one asked for. What you've repeatedly done is the equivalent of me telling you how to raise your kids within seconds of meeting you.

Quit with the snide remarks and left handed compliments. I'll leave them up, just to show everyone what I'm talking about, but any future ones get pulled. We don't reward the kind of immaturity you're displaying.

And finally, come clean about who you are. It's clear you are an ally of Lekay's, if not Lekay himself. You repeat his lies, often word for word, and you do a very poor impression of an NDN, except that like many outsiders your pose is of a generic one.

No one whose grown up NDN, or even around NDNs, would act as you have.

First you posed as a white guy worried about his brother the Christian faith healer, then a Cherokee, and then a Lakota.

Start with the obvious. There are a grand total of three Europeans on this board out of over 300, not counting (probably) you.

It's pretty hypocritical to blast a film being put with the enthusiastic cooperation of the most respected elders in the country, let ignore that Lekay is out to make money promoting a clear fraud like Dupree.

It's also hypocritical since Lekay is clearly out to dominate Lakota people and religion by his promotion of a fraud and his attempt to replace the Lakota's recognized elders with an out of touch hairdresser.

This section of the thread sidetracked by Steve will now be a new one. I'm curious to see how he'll hang himself further.

« Last Edit: July 20, 2007, 09:49:31 AM by educatedindian » Logged



Johnnie
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Re: Steve's Sidetrack
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2007, 10:15:02 AM »

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You know Ed Ind,

You prolly know this from experience. But one thing I have encountered repeatedly through the years is how those who would "act on your behalf," like Lekay and Steve, really get upset when Indians get ourselves educated. Recently had a student who gave me an evaluation. It ran something like this 'don't like to go to class cause he talks about Indians all the time.'

OK, I says back. How do you know I talk about Indians all the time if you don't go to class?

Another student wrote that I was "anti-Christian." Even wrote an email to a whole bunch of people that my class "was full of anti-Christian remarks." She was in class for a total of one hour during which time I was discussing how Santa Claus got into the nativitiy scene and wondered aloud who at the Resurrection brought the chocolate bunnies and colored eggs. She came in late and left before the class was done.

But what they see is a brown man with college degrees who can stand toe to toe on their religion, tell them things about what they believe.

I know that you, and other educated native people, have to blaze trails and thus are the first to run the gauntlet. My first years of grad school I had to work twice as hard as any non-minority student. And still there was the suspicion that we could not do the work.

We will see.

Johnnie

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frederica
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Re: Steve's Sidetrack
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2007, 12:54:30 PM »

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Johnny, The stereotype is always used to deal with anyone they precieve as a threat. Especially the men more than the women. Never have completely figured this out, if it is their own insecurities or just control. Apparemtly Lekay finds Frejia film a threat to his own. If he didn't there would be no reason for sock-puppets or trolls. frederica

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educatedindian
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Re: Steve's Sidetrack
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2007, 07:14:48 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's not unusual for white students to immediately insist that any mention of racism at all somehow must mean I hate whites. The good news is that, at 18 or 19, very few of them have their views set in stone yet. A lot of them are from very sheltered backgrounds. Some tell me they've never met even met someone who wasn't white before, much less had their views challenged. Best I can tell, most of them can be reached. The ones that can't may be beyond hope. At ASU several of them demanded I be fired and that what I was teaching should be barred from being discussed, things like US invasions of other countries. They were outnumbered by the students who were happy to finally hear the subjects they'd never heard about in school.

Back to the original topic:

"Steve" (John Lekay) sent me this message by IM two days ago. I asked him to post it in this thread, he changed the subject and went into another harangue exactly like Lekay has spouted before.

Since Lekay is afraid to post his latest impression of an NDN in here, I'll do it myself:

"Why do you accuse me of being a white-guy, i am half cherokee and half-white. my name is steve williams, i am 56 years old, i am a semi-retired plumber living in the Tampa, Florida area.
i have six children and 10 grandchildren. i can send you a pic of my family if you wish.

now, since we are playing private investigator what's your real name and occupation. not that i really care but if you are going to accuse someone of being somebody else then you should be upfront about who you are. are you even indian or one of those euro-wannabes?

if you don't want me posting on this site then simply boot me off but don't accuse my being someone esle, especially a snake like that lekay guy. thank you."

Like I said before, it's amusing to keep giving him the rope to hang himself.

Exactly same way of writing as Lekay, often word for word. More of yet another changing story. Now he's "half white" deliberately avoiding mention of what, exactly.

Seems like he doesn't know the first thing about Cherokees, which European ethnic groups they generally mixed with, where they are most likely to be, etc.

Like how he's insulting himself.

Keep trying John. The more time you waste failing to disrupt us in here is less time you have for promoting frauds.

« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:05:19 AM by educatedindian » Logged



Johnnie
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Re: Steve's Sidetrack
« Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 01:28:46 PM »

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Steve,

I put my tribal affiliation on my first post back up there where members are supposed to introduce themselves. And, I never said you resented Indian kids getting an education. Typical debate tactic is to duck the substance of the argument by putting words in your opponents mouth they never said and then argue that instead of the substance.

I also indicated elsewhere what I teach which is Religious Studies. Also Native studies and developing a course in women's studies cross-listed in several disciplines. Also involved in Potawatomi language projects which includes a lot of things including teaching. Also am assisting with the development of courses for Native prisoners.

Although you said you were Cherokee, what band or tribe? If you pull up the right to ask tribe and profession of people here then you have to also come up with the same information. Where do you work? What are your bands and clans? I posted mine in Podwewadmi zhesh mowen for other Podwewadmiek. So you are free to post yours in cherokeee. And I will ask someone to translate for me.

Johnnie



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educatedindian
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Re: Steve's Sidetrack
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 02:40:40 PM »

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Mr. Lekay,

Nice of you to admit to being who you actually are.

You see, when you go into the *exact* same sorts of harangues you have in the past, often word for word, you reveal yourself.
(That's why I'll leave these up. But we will delete any more personal attacks on anyone, and any more sidetracks, absolutely everything that is on any topic other than you discussing who you are.)

You also amuse me and prove me right, that by giving you rope, you keep hanging yourself.

If you're too lazy to read whagt I've said in here many times before, that's not my problem, just like it was not my problem when you were either too lazy or too incompetent to know how to research urban NDNs or unenrolled NDNs.

So tell us who your people are "Steve". After all, Cherokee communities are fairly small. Chances are someone in here knows the family you will *claim* to be.

(Probably Debbie, who in my experience seems to know *every NDN in the country.* It's amazing, it really is.)

Let's see how foolish you make yourself look next, Mr. Lekay.

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steve_w
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Re: Steve's Sidetrack
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 05:14:46 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote

But one thing I have encountered repeatedly through the years is how those who would "act on your behalf," like Lekay and Steve, really get upset when Indians get ourselves educated.
Quote


Johnnie

you said you teach? ok, [childish insult]. what do you teach? [childish insult, personal attack]

EI [childish insult, personal attack]

Look, in your bio you say Apache. you [childish insult] Dr. Carroll. that's you right? sorry to [childish insult] but you [childish insult]. you Apache eh? [racist insult] a person [racist insult] what makes you qualifed to expose other full-blooded indians, you are [childish insult] nobody has the right to call any indian a fraud. [[paranoia and childish insult]

I am not lekay, let's just say i am someone you teach with. thank you.

[Al's note: Edited since Lekay is a slow learner. Once again, we don't reward childishness, personal insults, and especially not racist insults. Future posts from Lekay will be deleted unless they directly address him coming clean about who he is.

Judging from his behavior, his medication seems to be wearing off. Or the strain of seeing his failure to do anything to NAFPS except amuse us or make us pity him further is getting to him.

How else to explain his magically changing from a mixedblood Cherokee retired plumber in Florida to a teacher working with me in Texas?

Maybe those crystal skulls he makes do it for him?]

« Last Edit: Yesterday at 05:38:09 PM by educatedindian » Logged



debbieredbear
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Re: Steve's Sidetrack
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 11:26:41 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe you need glasses. Al doesn't teach at ASU. Oh, and which ASU did you call? There is one in Tuscon and one in Phoenix. It's easy enough to find out where Al teaches. If you look.

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Barnaby_McEwan
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Re: Steve's Sidetrack
« Reply #10 on: Today at 03:41:01 AM »

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[Replying to Steve's Lekay's now-deleted post] Of course Al taught at ASU, you idiot. He did his doctoral disseration there, and studying for a doctorate includes learning how to teach: graduate students have students themselves. Al is not telling "obvious lies" but you are obviously ignorant of the most basic facts about academia.

http://www.asu.edu/clas/history/grad/graduate.html


Quote
The Department has a well-developed program to prepare students for college-level teaching, including a sequence of two seminars that train students in how to prepare syllabi, write and grade exams, prepare lectures, lead discussions, utilize information technology, and manage classroom dynamics.

The moment you stop being amusing you will be banned, and then you'll have to go back to whining about Damien Hirst. So dance for us, quickly now, faster, faster...
{JL note. Mr McEwan, first of all I am not Steve W. Please read the following very carefully.

Quote. It's not unusual for white students to immediately insist that any mention of racism at all somehow must mean I hate whites. The good news is that, at 18 or 19, very few of them have their views set in stone yet. A lot of them are from very sheltered backgrounds. Some tell me they've never met even met someone who wasn't white before, much less had their views challenged. Best I can tell, most of them can be reached. The ones that can't may be beyond hope. At ASU several of them demanded I be fired and that what I was teaching should be barred from being discussed, things like US invasions of other countries. They were outnumbered by the students who were happy to finally hear the subjects they'd never heard about in school.

This gives the distinct impression he was on the faculty as a paid employee since he mentions

A. His students.

B. Teaching his students.

C. Also demands of being fired, which means in the United States-termination of employment. All in the same paragraph.

He did not use the word expelled, or say that they demanded he be disqualified from his doctorial teachers training program.

He created this ambiguity and impression of being an employed teacher on the faculty at ASU. Any reasonable person would infer that this meant he was saying he is a ASU collage teacher.

As far as Mr. Hirst is concerned, this is completely off topic and appears as if you are deliberately just trying to change the subject and take the focus off Mr Carroll and his claims of teaching at ASU. This only makes it more obvious that he was not being entirely forth coming with the truth. "A half-truth is a whole lie” Yiddish proverb.

Mr. McEwan. Maybe you should think twice before you huff and puff and prematurely ejaculate your venom at the wrong person and defend Mr. Carroll next time he is caught prevaricating




« Last Edit: Today at 12:33:38 PM by Barnaby_McEwan » Logged

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educatedindian
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Re: Steve's Sidetrack
« Reply #11 on: Today at 09:38:23 AM »

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Mr. Lekay is as poor a researcher as ever.

http://www.asu.edu/lib/archives/manuscripts.htm

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:MoU9Pn...lnk&cd=17&gl=ca

Or more likely he's deliberately lying. He has actually mentioned online numerous times before having seen the second link.

He's also a very slow learner. Once again, any and all posts of his will be deleted unless they specifially have him discussing his identity.

Barnaby, thanks for the link. Always entertaining to see Nuage exploiters abusing each other.



« Last Edit: Today at 09:43:21 AM by educatedindian » Logged



steve_w
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Re: Steve's Sidetrack
« Reply #12 on: Today at 12:50:23 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Barnaby:

What the hell is a Scotsman doing stoking Al's ego? (LOL). Go blow your bagpipes up someone else's skirt. This is between little Al and I. (LOL).


EI:


Quote

From :
Sent : Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:50 AM
To : John Martin
Subject : reply

| | | Inbox


John,

Al Carroll completed our graduate program and currently resides in his home
town of San Antonio. He is not employed at ASU.

Best wishes,

Peter Iverson


Quote



Your own personal contact does not even refer to you as "Dr. Carroll". That says alot in itself. Mr. Iverson has been an invaluable source of info, why do you keep deleting my post? I am not John Lekay, how can treat an old school chum with such disrespect. ASU........Class of 2002.

And what's with the Scotsman attacking me? Too afraid to confront me yourself you Apache fraud.

LOL!!!!

P.S. It's good to have friends in small places..........like ASU.


AT THIS POINT THIS LAST POST ABOVE BY STEVE W, JOHN MARTIN WAS DELETED. HE WAS ALSO BANNED FROM THE NAFPS SITE.
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Prairyearth

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Aug 7 07 3:32 PM

The following from;
http://www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.8.Robin.htm


ROBIN ON NAFPS

A respected Native American grandmothers experience of being assaulted by New Age Fraud and Plastic Shamans.org


John LeKay: When did you first hear about NAFPS and why did you join this group?

Robin: I first heard about the NAFPS through a member of their group. It was my first time that I had ever gone into a forum on the internet. When I first went into the forum, it was very foreign in the sense that there were many names of people in research and frauds, that I had never heard of. I tried to read through as many posts as I could to grasp what the main focus of the group was. However, I myself had a specific role to play when I joined the NAFPS and that was to involve myself on the inside of a group called the CKY to expose who and what the group was, to obtain as much information on the individuals as possible, especially those that held the ranks of what they called "priests, clan mothers, and chiefs".

JL: After reading the numerous posts in the so called "research" and in "fraud" columns, what was your initial gut reaction, your intuition telling you about to what you had read?

Robin: As I began to read through the posts on groups or individuals, I saw a pattern within the group which I had discussed
with another member, and that was; for the number of members that were in the group, I saw only a small handful that posted or responded. Those that posted would sometimes cut and paste emails of outside individuals, without any substantial proof the person existed or what they said was truth. Most of the postings were based on mainly links provided, which many times led to more hearsay of others. Some links did provide, in reading, show that the the group or individual proven evidence that the public should be wary of. Also, I became aware that it was common practice that if a post was made of an individual or group, it was bombarded by several posts of accusations, hearsay, at times much deletion and editing (and in reading what was deleted or such that the person defending themselves did not write things that warranted such editing nor deletion). This reminded me of seeing a child in a school yard being ganged up by several children. These were usually posted as "childish behavior, insults, racial remarks" to give a few examples that were and still are used; giving the impression to many reading the post that the person defending themselves are viewed as a guilty person through unfounded remarks. When nothing more could be said, then another post would be started on a new subject or person. I, myself, saw a small portion of the many posts where someone from the group actually went out and gathered facts that were of credence.

My own personal feelings on the matter was that I was involved within a group that was damaging people that may not have deserved what was printed about them. I knew that the nafps was not what it appeared and before Mr. Carroll and I had a disagreement, I had already made the decision to leave the group

JL: What conclusion did you draw as to what this group was about?

Robin: My conclusion of the group as a whole is based on not my opinion but facts. The whole system of the nafps is based on emotions of dysfunction, there are contradictions; much are based on "do as I say, not as I do". The group as a whole consists of white people that have little to no knowledge of native people and customs, except through books, cyberspace, and limited contact with native people. When there has been in the group - actual tribal members - when expressing their view on something, in most cases have been brushed aside or attacked. What is held sacred in the group is not that of native culture, but moreso of themselves and their beliefs on how native people should act or behave according to their standards. This is not a group that base their foundation on native culture, but that of personal beliefs of what they have either read, or picked up small bits of information from actual native people. The saying that some people know enough to make them dangerous, in this case it would rightly apply.

JL: Why did you have a disagreement with Mr. Carroll?

Robin: There had been communications between Al Carrol and myself about the CKY, and what I was going to do. Once I joined into the CKY group, I tried to converse with as many people as I could to gather whatever information I could. The CKY based their beliefs on new age of Atlantis with a mix of Mayan, very little Cherokee and other beliefs that were totally made up by members. As soon as I joined I was told I would call Jerry Edwards along with other male members "priests". I replied that if I was to follow "traditions" then they should do the same and speak to me only through my husband and not myself directly.
This angered Jerry Edwards but not to the degree of kicking me out. About the third day of being a member, I had received a phone call stating there was a picture of me and a map of my location on their web page. I immediately emailed them and told them if they did not remove it I would contact the police and FBI.

Within 2 weeks I received a letter from an attorney representing them with unethical threats. In first reading it, I thought it was a joke, due to the stationary used, the way the letter was worded unlike all the attorneys I know. So I called the attorney and it was not until I left a message that I was calling the bar association then did he return my call. In my conversation with him, he was very vague unlike the accusations that were stated in the letter. In the meantime I did begin the process to file a complaint against the attorney.

I had retained an attorney in Ky. that would take the case. I had received a letter from Al Carroll that backed up what my case was based on. In the meantime, Al Carroll had posted on his site through a cut and paste that one of the members of the CKY was going to join the group, this person named Starr was one that was involved in the case we were building against the CKY and had given Edwards' attorney false information about me.

When reading the post from Al Carroll in his group it as I said was a cut and paste of a letter that was to appear to be that of Starr. In his posting he said that Starr had seen the wrongs by the Edwards and was now going to join the nafps. This became a contradiction, and also a conflict of interest concerning my case against the Edwards, Starr and their attorney. When I stated to Al Carroll he was wrong for allowing her into the group at that time, I felt he was slapping me in the face as I stated to him. His response which he has now removed from the nafps board, but I have a copy of , was of this" did you not forget that you yourself was once a delusional and confused woman that was a member of the CKY"? This statement that he made was a means to validate what he was doing. And to make it appear that I was actually a real member of the CKY but had come to my senses and was converted into exposing frauds.

So I posted emails between he and I showing what he was saying was not the truth, that he was compromising my case by changing his story of what the truth was. He deleted many of them shortly after I posted them. In his personal emails to me, he thought I was wrong for being angry, that what he had posted should have no bearing on my case( which in fact one of the strongest points in my case were based on what Al Carroll had stated in a letter to the bar association and the public) That I was disrespecting him, and then continued with emails with taunts. However he had for whatever reason changed his mind and instead posted that I myself was nothing more than a confused woman involved in a fraud group.

Since that time he announced that this woman "Starr" had joined the nafps she made a intro post on July 12, 2006, but has never made any other posts or replies in the nafps.

It was also at that time he was attacking Scarlett Kinney. She and I had come to an understanding of each other through mutual respect. I had read her site and in communication understood what she was trying to accomplish and that perhaps I could share some stories with her and some personal insight. This is by far selling out my traditions as stated by Al Carroll this past April in a group forum in Tennessee.

I myself have been very busy and involved this past year with children that have been given up by their biological mothers and are wards of the state. My husband and I took a newborn in last July and just recently finalized the adoption. We are not licensed foster parents and do not receive any kind of assistance nor state aid for what we do, it comes from our pockets. As I stated to Al when he made the post that yes I was selling, but not traditions, I was selling my personal belongings to pay for the attorney fees in the adoption, and if he liked to go on ebay and see what I was selling, had sold and perhaps maybe he would buy something that would be making a positive contribution to a child that needed a good stable home. In the adoption process you must go through several background checks, criminal, physical, and psychological. My husband and I both passed and in fact it was recommended to the judge through these background checks that the process waive the 6 month grace period. If I was a unstable person or a person of questionable character I would not have been granted the adoption. That in itself shows the untruths that Al Carroll has said about me.

I have not had time to doing nothing more than care for children. No where have I sold out traditions, nor made public appearances in regards to ceremonies or teachings of traditions. Al Carroll posted under a unknown name, "That I had sold out to white exploiters" was traced to the Jordan School District in San Antonio, Texas. His posting of untruths about me has not come from research, but through words like that of a little boy that needs attention, whether it be good or bad. what is interesting about all this, I am not a public figure in no way whatsoever, I am a housewife, mother, grandmother nothing more. I have nothing to gain in the public's opinion of lying. The public opinion is not a priority in my life, what is, are the children I take in and care for.

JL: Were you also attacked by other members of the NAFPS group or just Al Carroll?

Robin: The dynamics within the group if attacks occur usually fall into the hands of two people, Al Carroll and Moma Porcupine. But if there were a conflict with Al Carroll, I believe that in my situation, if some did not agree with how Al handled the situation, they would not nor did they speak up on the matter. In fact is was quiet the opposite, no one spoke on the matter. It is more an attitude of sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist. And go on to the next subject. However I did forward an email to Barnaby from Al Carroll and I did this only to prove in fact I was truthful in the matter. The answer that came back from him was, " what do you want me to do about it?" In sending it I already knew that I would receive a response that would be of an answer such as that.

I did receive a personal email from Annika asking me to reconsider leaving the group, pointing to me that perhaps "Starr" was a changed person and should be given the chance to prove it. But she also stated that if "Starr" was not, it would be easy to see if it was more of a way for a fraud to come into the group to create discord. I did not have it in me to tell her, that I thought Al only wanted everyone to think "Starr" was part of nafps, for the reason which if looking at it from the outside view, was to get drama and more readers in the room at the time. This is also another tactic used to bring people in to read, to create sensational reading. But what it really is, a form of personality dysfunction.

When it comes to confronting Al when he is wrong, there is no objectivity there within the group. It is a matter if you read the
many posts he makes, you will not find any in the group that will voice or posts anything that might be in disagreement with what he says.
And if one does, the pattern is Moma Porcupine will come in and attack the person, then Al may come in with passiveness,. However they seem to tag team who is good cop / bad cop. Never do they log into the nafps at the same time. In fact when reading some of her more recent posts, there has been a large difference in how she writes. Which is leading me to believe the Moma Porcupine is actually a man pretending to be a woman, or perhaps a man that is like a woman. If you take a closer look at the two main attackers, Al Carrol and Moma Porcupine, why do they do this? Because they have the most to loose on the board, and that is the board itself.

I did feel some undertone attacks with Moma Porcupine at times, which I found somewhat puzzling. Because most of the time it was based on unimportant and unrelated issues that were borderline paranoia. Other than Al Carroll and Moma Porcupine there were no others that attacked me, yet no one made any attempts to defend me either. It reminded me much of a person walking down the street and is mugged, many people walk by yet do nothing, some of the reasons people do this is, do not care, do not want to get involved, or fear alone. There are undertones of fear in the forum, which do remind me of someone living with an alcoholic, there is fear of unpredictability of not knowing what the person will say or do. Always on guard to defend the perpetrator. For fear of being rejected, smeared, damaged or hurt in some way.

JL: Do you know if other members of the group were smeared, damaged or hurt for confronting Al Carroll.

Robin: Yes there have been other members in the nafps that have been attacked.


Annika Banfield Bio aka Freija. 5 star member

JL: Who is Moma Porcupine, who is Barnaby McEwan and who is Annika Banfield? Are these the primary players other than Al Carroll? What do they do besides posting on nafps? Where do they live and work?
RL: Momma Porcupine is anonymous. She gives no information of who or what she is, nor where she lives or what she does. I believe she is a man and is actually two different people posting under that name. She has no intro in the group. Barnaby, I can only say he lives in the U.K. what he does, I have no information other than that. Annika is a friend of Al Carroll's she lives in Sweden and has done filming on native American issues.

JL: Do you see a behavioral pattern as to the dynamics of the group? In other words is there internal email dialogue amongst each other as to how they will deal with a NAFPS dissident for example?
Robin: Yes, there are emails that are sent between members in regards to issues posted and how one may handle the situation, what could be said, what to do and not do.
If receiving e mails from Al Carroll stating that if I talked to certain individuals, that it would also make me a fraud. I would have to say yes. I received 3 emails from him in regards to who I talk to. I would like to leave it up to anyone that might read this to form their own opinion of how they would view this as an outsider what this would be considered as.

JL: Al Carroll has been unable to prove his apache origin. The fact is he he is not enrolled, recognized or affiliated with any apache tribe. Using his mathematics, couldn't Barnaby McEwan hippy from England also say he is part Mescarleo apache? So could Annika Banfield who is from Sweden?
Why you believe he has not been able to prove who he is or what his roots are and what exactly do you think this would mean to most Native Americans?
Robin: Al Carroll in his own words has stated in his blog were two comments from two native ladies, one he names is Annika, the other Momma Porcupine. Annika I suppose would be native of Sweden, but not here in the states, and Moma Porcupine has stated herself she is not Native American, so I do not know what that statement would actually mean if it is in the terms as I just stated. Otherwise it is a fabrication of Al Carroll trying to pass them off as Native American women.


I have seen many friends that are Native American that were adopted out, yet have been able to find and locate their biological families.
I have a daughter-in-law, her father is Hispanic and her mother is Hispanic/native mix, yet she herself does not say she is Mexican/Native mix, she says she is Mexican.
I have seen many Hispanic people for whatever reason say they are native, but has no proof to their bloodline of being native. When a person states they are unenrolled this means 1) Their native roots go so far back that they do not qualify with a tribe according the the tribes Blood Quantum requirements, 2) They can not produce any family names that would link them to a tribe.
In most cases ( I underlined most because it is not implying all) people that are unenrolled under say the two examples I gave, having no knowledge of the culture, language or ceremonies, and in Al Carroll's case I have only seen him use Lakota words which that in itself says quiet a lot. It says he knows very little to none of his own culture that he proudly shouts out. Yet not proud enough to learn it. In my family there are 3 tribes, I myself can converse with all of them. I have been taught the languages, the customs, the ceremonies.
If Al Carroll can not prove he is Apache, nor speak the language, or even know some of the customs, the question would be why does he find it necessary to say he is Mexican/Apache? If you look at what he actually does, that in itself will answer the question.

Al Carroll aka Educated Indian is the ringleader of NAFPS. 5 star member



JL: Do you know how the apache feel about some one who claims to be representing them and is attacking other tribes and medicine people and meddling in their business? What is this doing for intertribal relations?
Robin: I have one friend that is from the White Mountain Apache Tribe. We have discussed this issue in the past. It has angered her to see Mexican people state they are Apache. As she has said "none of them speak our language, what do they know about being Apache?"
I am not a member of the Apache and can not speak for them, but what I will say on the subject is that no tribe wants anyone that is not appointed to speak for them, speak out on matters that concern their traditions or culture.
John if I may put it this way, you are from England, is that correct? How would the people in England feel if someone from a foreign country set up a web site to discuss matters of the political, and religious practices of England? How many Catholic Popes have declared Kings and Queens of England to be heretics? It is the same mind set. Do foreigners have the right to appoint themselves to be over seers of other countries? No, just like in this case with the nafps they do not have the right to oversee matters that do not concern them, they do not live under the same laws as those on reservations. They do not live in the conditions, nor walk out of their homes every morning and deal with the issues that many on the reservations are dealing with on a daily basis. There may be one or two on the board that might live in the Native communities and deal with these issues, but it does not give them the right to speak on behalf of their tribe or other tribes. The native communities are filled with gangs, violence, poverty, abuse, homeless, jobless. The forum itself instead of focusing on a handful of frauds, they would be more constructive if they were working with the tribes to help the many overcome the issues that I have pointed out. It is very sad to see in a recent posting that one of their members who works with his tribe to cultivate their natural resources to improve his tribe and preserve for their youth's future, to be put under a microscope by Moma Porcupine and try to imply that he is exploiting his culture.
Read what Martina Looking Horse, Arvol's sister has posted recently , in it she speaks about outsiders and the damage they have and are doing to the Lakota people. She herself along with many others do not want outside meddlers involved within the Lakota communities, customs or traditions. What would make the nafps exempt from this? Nothing, this includes all with no exceptions.


JL: Would you say that this group is doing more harm than good or vice versa?

Robin: I myself have seen very little positive come from the group. As a whole they may think they had done much good, however that is a state of denial that many of them are in. The tribes themselves are the ones that should and are handling frauds. To have people that are not enrolled in the tribes, having stepped out of their boundaries and have imposed themselves in matters that do not concern them is disrespecting the elders and traditions.

JL: Have you ever known this NAFPS group to retract their comments or humbly apologize to anyone?
Robin: I myself have never seen anyone apologize in a sincere or humbling manner. Nor have I seen anyone retract any comments made toward a person they were attacking.



Also see

http://heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.9.JayeLaValle.Letter.htm

www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.8.MUSIC.Tommy.2.htm

www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.8.IsALCarrolAFraud.htm

www.thestandingbear.com/notecomment.htm

www.selectablog.com/exposingpredators

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#3 [url]

Aug 8 07 11:16 AM

If They Can't Aplogise When They Are Wrong About The Many They Have Targeted: Then They Should Be Pulled Off Completely. They Were Wrong About Us, And No Sorry Came From Nowhere.

To Have Targeted Kaneekaneet And Not Even Bother To Speak To Any Of Us About Whom He Truly Is Or Even What We Have Been Up Too To Help Our Blood Relations?

The Document Should Put The Finishing Touch On Their Wide Paintbrush...I Wonder If They Are Paid To Hate Or See It As Some Twisted Duty? I Look At Their Site And I Learned Nothing: And Yet I Am Sure They Must Have Had Permission From Some To Act And Behave That Way.....The GhostChild.

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Prairyearth

InnerFireCircle

Posts: 1,285

#4 [url]

Aug 27 07 10:49 AM

Some of the above links may draw a blank, as John LeKay decided to pull the stories off his heyoka magazine.

John LeKay, I value your journalism and heyoka magazine, and feel it brings well rounded issues, art etc., to the public, that is much needed in these times.

I liken the NAFPS to a group of people who are on a modern day witch hunt. Their behavior rivals the inquisitions of old. There is no reasoning with the NAFPS what so ever. It's their way or their way. The NAFPS are killing the heart, mind and character of those who get in their way. There is no Kindness or Justice amongst the NAFPS. It is a cold and dead way. The NAFPS e-lynches, e-drowns or e-burns at the e-stake the accused victims of their choosing. I feel they are dangerous and out of control.

Prairy

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Prairyearth

InnerFireCircle

Posts: 1,285

#6 [url]

Apr 19 08 10:00 AM

Greetings GhostChild and Fire members,

It has come to my attention that someone copied my words here at the beginning of this thread and posted them on a blog spot last December of 2007: http://my2point2cents.wordpress.com/2007/0...e/#comment-1050

I'm looking to avoid getting drawn into any more drama of all this, however, I must post this to set the record straight.

I don't have an issue with someone quoting from this site, however, an impostor posing as me quoted what I said without posting the reference url, and added words to that quote that are not my words.

This is what I said;


QUOTE
Posted on August 07, 2007 10:24 pm

Remember when NAFPS attacked many Ghostchildren?

Apparently NAFPS attacked the wrong people recently and are looking for a way to get their hate forum back up and running.

I received the following bulletin last evening on myspace, in which Al Carroll is seeking letters of support. A letter he will not receive from me.

The following bulletin is an expression and statement by Al Carroll, NDN News and Save the Sacred Sites, it does not express my own thoughts on this matter.

I will also be posting some more articles from Heyoka magazine regarding the NAFPS and their interactions, false accusations with other peoples.
Prairy


This is what the impostor said:

QUOTE
December 11, 2007 at 6:48 am
Al Carroll is that nut-job who was kicked off the internet for violating just about every regulation in the book i.e. identity theft, sexual harassment, death threats etc;

Remember when NAFPS attacked many Ghostchildren?

Apparently NAFPS attacked the wrong people recently and were looking for a way to get their hate forum back up and running.

I received the following bulletin last evening on myspace, in which Al Carroll is seeking letters of support. A letter he will not receive from me.

The following bulletin is an expression and statement by Al Carroll, NDN News and Save the Sacred Sites, it does not express my own thoughts on this matter.

(Carroll’s statement not worth posting here.)

Al Carroll has serious mental health issues. He is a menace to the Native American community, that’s why he has people watching him, mainly his Euro-trash supporters, so he won’t do something stupid and get kicked off the net again. http://my2point2cents.wordpress.com/2007/0...e/#comment-1050


Hopefully all persons concerned will be able to determine which words I wrote versus which words the impostor wrote.

PEACE,
Prairyearth

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#7 [url]

Apr 14 10 2:23 PM

Hallo there

This man Al Carroll you talk abaut he is not stopped, where to write to take legal actions against him?

Information on this would be very much presiaded.

Regards Justice

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Prairyearth

InnerFireCircle

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#8 [url]

Apr 14 10 10:17 PM

Greetings Justice and Welcome to the Ghost Child Fire.

Are you in Denmark? It sounds like you are having some problems with Al and company? Could you tell us your story so that we might know how to help you?

Thanks,

Prairy

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#9 [url]

Apr 15 10 2:50 PM

Greetings Prairyearth

And wery much thanks for the welcome here.
Yes I am locadet in Denmark.
My story is Not mine alone.
I see this man violating people, mingle whit peoples interest, twisting tribal isues that dont belong to him, to make good people look like, if they where doing wrong to there own society.

And putting jugde up on people he dont even know nothing abaut, exept for what he fabricateded in his own head out of contekst from web.
He let him self and his horror forum be used for personel vandetta.
I guess you know his patton already.

I dont know what he think he is, but I would very much like the right canal and write a complaint abaut this for the right people to investergate him, and put an finilly end to his busness.
That man I consiter dangerus to all human society no matter race.

Regards Justice

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Prairyearth

InnerFireCircle

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#10 [url]

Apr 15 10 9:30 PM

Yes, Justice, I understand.

Does anyone here at the fire have any wisdom or suggestions to share with Justice regarding Al and his Gang? I can't help but feel pity for these NAFPS people. They are so miserable.

I will "sleep" on this before answering in full.

Many Blessings of Hope be with you, I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers until this issue is resolved.

Prairy

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Prairyearth

InnerFireCircle

Posts: 1,285

#11 [url]

May 3 10 8:14 AM

This Matter has been handed over to the Great Spirit.
What comes around, goes around...full circle.
Many Blessings of Laughter, Peace and Hope be to You,
Prairyearth

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#13 [url]

May 28 11 5:23 AM

Al Carroll has been unable to prove his apache origin
what people fail to understand about this group called NAFPS
http://www.newagefraud.org/
is that there not native american indians and there not the boss of the american
indian tribes
they have no direct deep knowledge of the american indians
there a group of whites that hate american indians

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#15 [url]

May 28 11 5:34 AM

IS AL CARROLL AN APACHE OR A FRAUD
Controversial fraud Hunter and self appointed medicine man buster Dr. Alton Carroll, aka Educated Indian has never made public his Apache parent (s) family name nor has he been able to substantiate his claims on the record that one of his parents or grandparents is of Apache origin. There could be many legitimate reasons for this but for the time being he still remains an enigma.

For example, there have been many instances of Hollywood actors who have made claims of being Apache to end up proven false. The obvious reasons and motivation for claiming to be of Mescalero Apache origin is usually monetarily driven, promotion of a career, books, seminars, films and donations for websites. Most often, they do this overseas and in Europe where it is close to impossible for people to validate their claims.

Most people would recognize the benefits and realize that this is a great sales pitch to use the name of Geronimo on your bio and to say that you come from the same tribe as one of the bravest warriors that has ever lived. In this day and age, some people will go to great lengths to stand out from the crowd. Whether it's for an audition or selling a book or promoting a film.

The evidence so far indicates that Dr. Al Carroll is not enrolled, recognized or affiliated with any Apache tribe. His best defense to date is rather dubious because when asked he has replied by saying "ask my college friends and they will tell you about my Indian-ness". Indian could easily mean Aztec or Mayan Yucatán, Oaxaca, Chiapas, Campeche, Hidalgo, Puebla, Guerrero, San Luis Potosí, Veracruz or Mexican Indian; since he did not say Apache-ness. Or it could also mean he's from India for that matter. It could be that he is being facetious or is using humor to cleverly deflect this simple question; so that most people would laugh, shrug it off and forget about it and not ask again. In other words, assume he is telling the truth and take him at his word. After all, he is known to be the New Age Fraud buster.

Now, if his parent were of Apache origin, this would be in most instances simple to verify. With just a name of the parent and by asking the Apache people. Most families that live on the Apache Mescalero reservation would be able to confirm this. Since most likely his father is Irish ( with a name like Carroll ), that would probably mean his mother's Apache maiden name would be all that is needed to identify her family and to prove descendency. If he were adopted, there would also be adoption papers that would legally verify who his mother was and her race.

To prove legitimate descendency, one needs to have some record of his/her belonging to a member of the tribe that was recognized by the tribe at some point. If you don't have contact with your tribal member then you can ask the tribe to look for his last name.

His grandparents (living or deceased) and descendents grave sites in most instances would also be able to be located and identified. They can look this up in various ways and see if his family line is known.

Another way to find out is to use the tribal newspaper and submit an article asking if anyone has lineage to his tribal member. Or to have someone pass out flyers on the reservation with a photograph of Apache origin with the name for people who do not have access to a computer. If a family member is located and there is a dispute as to a relative, DNA analysis would simply resolve this. A blood sample could prove a positive match.

There really isn't any logical reason or excuse in this high tech day and age for not being able to prove this. Without this proof, Dr. Al Carroll, as well as anyone else, can claim to be of Apache origin including myself and my Japanese next door neighbor. Anyone who is not able to prove this obviously is not being forthcoming with the truth.

Then the next question is, if this is the case; is Alton Carroll the right person to be operating a website entitled New Age Fraud and Plastic Shaman when all the evidence seems to point to the fact that he is a questionable and highly suspect person himself. Until this matter is completely resolved, the ethical thing for him to do is to step down until this is cleared up . As long as Dr. Al Carroll is under this dark cloud of suspicion, this will undermine the credibility and cover the legitimate participants on the New age fraud website.

WARNING

If you are thinking of visiting or joining New Age Frauds & Plastic Shamans before doing so, please be prepared that if you do challenge Al Carroll, or his associate Barnaby McEwan; they will delete anything that you say that exposes their abusive behavior and in its place insert derogatory, infantile, deceitful and inverse racist comments.

They will most likely also blame shift and classically project their own negativity and ignorance onto the person and attempt to make it appear to their audience as if it was the innocent person's fault. When all else fails, they may also attempt to make the person appear racist, condescending, patronizing and worse. Also expect to have your privacy violated by them posting your home address, phone numbers and email address online.

You can also expect that they will flip and twist your words and comments, like "he is calling us dumb Indians"or he will delete a fine point and say it's childish, rambling, insane, lazy, ignorant, sloppy, racist and so forth. This is obviously designed to distort and invalidate the individual by creating a false impression to his audience and followers, as well as to attempt to make himself appear more intelligent, wittier, wiser, superior and so on.

Then after the individual is through, this could also lead to another round of a viscous smearing campaign and dissemination of more deceit and other forms of Internet Hate Crimes on other forums, chat rooms, websites and cyberspace.

Al Carroll will use all forms of bullying and intimidation tactics that are often implemented by cultists and street gang members.

When this fails, he then retreats and hides out for a while until the individual disappears and then starts all over again on a brand new unsuspecting individual.
http://newagefraud.blogspot.com/2007/10/is...e-or-fraud.html
http://www.newagefraud.org/
found this on the web
ARVOL LOOKING HORSE
19th Generation Keeper of the Sacred White Buffalo Calf Pipe
To
New Age Frauds & Plastic Shamans
http://www.newagefraud.org/
You do Not support the us.
The Indigenous people .
You have no knowledge of the lakota people or any other native nation
your web site speads Lies about our people,
new age frauds has no knowledge of the native america indian spirtuality
your web site www.newagefraud.org
Is full of lies about native amererica indian people,
Your on the wrong path to this to these people

Arvol Looking Horse
19th Generation Keeper of the Sacred White Buffalo Calf Pipe

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Prairyearth

InnerFireCircle

Posts: 1,285

#16 [url]

May 30 11 9:14 PM

Greetings LakotaHeart and Welcome to to the GhostChild peoples Fire.

I haven't kept up with Al and his gang for quite some time. Reading over what you shared does sound familiar and shines the light of truth on Al and his mob mentality.

How is Arvol Looking Horse doing these days? I haven't kept up with his news either.

I did hear some news of significance that there was a new little male White Buffalo Calf born in the Texas Hill country a few weeks back, I need to follow up on that.

The wind is a howling out hear on the prairie tonight. Hold on to your hats!

Lakota Heart, are you writing from the UK? Just curious.

Many Blessings of Peace and Real Hope be to You and Yours.
Prairy ghostchild/tumbleweed.gif

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#17 [url]

Jan 13 15 10:03 AM

Lately Al and his gang are back at it again in full gear. My suggestion would be to complain to organizations that Al claims association with. The Northern Virignia Community College History Department - if he hasn't lost his job there already. You could also contact the Mescalero Apache Tribe he claims to be a member of - but is not.

One of their victims did file a libel suit against them which is currently in the Oklahoma courts.

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Prairyearth

InnerFireCircle

Posts: 1,285

#18 [url]

Jan 14 15 9:19 AM

Greetings Jody and Welcome to the ghost child fire circle. 


Thank you for the update. Having gone through a personal crisis these past 2 years, as my husband of 35 years had a catastrophic health crisis, I've not followed this issue, as I have to do the work for 2 people now and am my husbands caregiver. Anyone who is able to help with the NAFPS issues that ruin peoples lives, please continue to do so.  Prairy

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